Stan Lee On The Jack Kirby 'Avengers' Credit Controversy (UPDATE)

The Huffington Post  |  By Posted: 04/24/2012 5:19 pm Updated: 04/25/2012 2:10 pm

UPDATE: After attending a NY press screening, Moviefone can confirm that Jack Kirby's name is listed in the end credits as a co-creator. Previously, we referred to Kirby's omission from promotional materials of the upcoming film. Original story appears below.

On May 4, the hugely anticipated adaptation of Marvel Comics' premiere superhero team, "The Avengers," hits theaters. But what many movie fans might not realize is that a nasty battle regarding ownership rights is currently going on behind the scenes.

Most people know Stan Lee as the father of the Marvel Universe, but his efforts creating Spider-Man, Iron Man and the X-Men were not accomplished single-handedly. When the Avengers made their comic book debut in September 1963, Lee shared co-creator credit on the book with artist Jack Kirby. The prolific illustrator, who passed away in 1994, is also credited as the co-creator of characters Captain America, Thor, Iron Man, the Incredible Hulk, Nick Fury and big-screen bad guy Loki.

However, the artist nicknamed "The King" left Marvel in 1970, and for the rest of his life, he had a tempestuous relationship with the company, as well as Lee, fighting over credits, royalties and ownership of his artwork. It's a complicated case brought on by vague legal terms and changing copyright laws in the U.S. (changes ironically lobbied heavily for by the Avengers' new owners, Disney). Just last year, Kirby's estate lost a legal bid for the copyrights to the characters he helped bring to life.

Not surprisingly, Jack Kirby's co-creator credit appears nowhere in the promotion of "The Avengers." His fans have expressed outrage over the way his contributions to the movie's very existence are being swept under the rug. Stephen Bissette (co-creator of "Constantine," and noted "Swamp Thing artist) called for a boycott of Marvel comics and merchandise, while James Sturm, co-founder of the Center for Cartoon Studies, also published an essay explaining his decision to boycott the movie. Many fans have followed suit, arguing that while Disney and Marvel have no legal obligation to acknowledge Kirby, their actions are completely lacking in ethics.

During an interview to promote both "The Avengers" and his new documentary "With Great Power: The Stan Lee Story," Moviefone asked Stan Lee himself about his take on the Kirby controversy. His response is below. (The full Stan Lee interview will run next week.)

Fans of Jack Kirby are concerned that his name appears nowhere on the credits of "The Avengers." What's your take on their concern?
I don't know how to answer that because in what way would his name appear?

His name isn't mentioned anywhere in the film production as a co-creator.
Well it's mentioned in every comic book; it says "By Stan Lee and Jack Kirby."

But it doesn't appear for the film itself; and his fans feel he should get that recognition, with the movie exposing his work to a whole new audience.
I know, but you're talking to the wrong guy because I have nothing to do with the credits on the movies. I'm credited as one of the executive producers because that's in my contract. But Jack was not an executive producer. So I don't know what he'd be credited as. Again I know nothing about that, I have nothing to do with the movie's credits. You'd have to talk to whoever is the producer of the movie. Is there anything you want to ask me about the documentary because I thought that's what I was supposed to be talking about.

I will, but I have one last question on the subject. As an executive producer on "The Avengers," what advice would you have for a young comic creator that's trying to navigate this new world of movie adaptations?
The way it works is if you make a good comic book that would make a good movie, and some movie producer sees it, he'd want to buy the rights to the comic book. One thing you might want to do is if you have a comic book that is that good, is try to get an agent. Try to bring the book up to an agency like CAA or William Morris. It's always easier if an agent presents it, then just the person.

FOLLOW MOVIEFONE

'FONE FINDS
UPDATE: After attending a NY press screening, Moviefone can confirm that Jack Kirby's name is listed in the end credits as a co-creator. Previously, we referred to Kirby's omission from promotional m...
UPDATE: After attending a NY press screening, Moviefone can confirm that Jack Kirby's name is listed in the end credits as a co-creator. Previously, we referred to Kirby's omission from promotional m...
 
 
  • Comments
  • 9
  • Pending Comments
  • 0
  • View FAQ
Post Comment Preview Comment
To reply to a Comment: Click "Reply" at the bottom of the comment; after being approved your comment will appear directly underneath the comment you replied to.
View All
Recency  | 
Popularity
06:11 PM on 05/12/2012
Stan Lee's own words show that Jack Kirby was indeed the primary co-creator of the '60s Marvel Universe. In all justice, then, Jack should be getting top billing in the Marvel movies based on his work, which is almost all of the movies, definitely including THE AVENGERS.

Here's what Stan Lee said when asked to talk about Jack Kirby:

"When you talk about Kirby you really run out of superlatives. Jack was a writer as well as an artist (as many of the legends were). He was incredibly imaginative and he did his most important writing with his drawing. When I say that I mean if I gave Jack a very brief idea of what I wanted for a story, he would run with it . . .

"I would discuss the idea with Jack like that and that was all I had to do. And then Jack would go home and he would draw the story and he would add a million elements that I hadn't told him about, so he was really writing in pictures and dreaming up ideas along the way.

"And then when I did write the copy (the words, the dialogue and the captions) it was such a joy because all I had to do was look at the illustration that Jack had done and each picture gave me a thousand new ideas ...."

--Comic Book Marketplace magazine, # 61, July 1998, pages 48-49.
03:22 PM on 05/12/2012
Stan Lee is a glory hound. He likes to take credit for everything and then wonders why people don't like him.
07:42 PM on 04/27/2012
The person who interviewed Lee should have watched the movie BEFORE he made a fool of himself, then he'd have known that Kirby is actually credited in it, not just for creating the bulk of the characters but also for creating Captain America alongside Joe Simon.

So-called "reporters" who don't bother getting the facts right are a disgrace.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
SpeakupNation
Pray for the dead and fight like hell for the livi
02:56 PM on 04/26/2012
Kirby was a great artist. So distinctive. But I think Stan Lee is probably a bit hamstrung to talk openly about this by all the legal stuff.
05:04 PM on 04/25/2012
Patrick Ford's opinion is by no means universal in comics fandom. When he states that Jack Kirby "wrote almost all the stories he created until the late 80s," Ford overlooks how undependable our records are for 1940s work. Kirby worked for the Simon-Kirby comics shop and thus in an environment where practiced writers could have contributed story-ideas and dialogue at any given time, yet would never have been credited. Kirby probably did come up with many of the basic concepts he drew but it's revealing that when he worked for DC Comics in the 1950s, he was generally assigned to work with writers. If Kirby was such a great one-man band, why would DC bother paying out that extra paycheck for a separate writer?

One conclusion might be that though he was a brilliant artist, Kirby may have often needed writer input to keep him on track long before he began collaborating with Stan Lee.
04:58 PM on 04/25/2012
Patrick Ford's opinion is by no means universal in comics fandom. When he states that Jack Kirby "wrote" his stories, what that actually means is that Kirby, whether he had prior script input with anyone else or not, drew the stories directly onto his artboards. KIrby may or may not have supplied the dialogue in his 1940s comic books. Many of his 1950s works for DC share credit with DC writers, so the question comes up: if Jack Kirby was such a one-man band in terms of writing and drawing, why did DC Comics assign him writers at all?

Maybe they didn't have quite the same faith in Kirby's writing talents that Patrick Ford has.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Darlie Brewster
HAOL is censored, the truth is not here.
04:14 PM on 04/25/2012
Pathetic.
photo
zenchris
Currently in Exile
10:48 AM on 04/25/2012
Boy, that guy got screwed. All I ever knew was Stan Lee. Definitely not a fanboy, but loved comics growing up. Another case of history obscuring reality.
11:00 PM on 04/24/2012
This is a very poorly researched article. Jack Kirby was a Writer/Artist, not an "artist." Kirby had been writing comics since the late '30s several years before Stan Lee became a writer for Marvel (Timely) comics in 1941. Kirby continued to write almost all the stories he created until the late '80s. While at Marvel during the years 1958-1970 Kirby created characters and stories which he turned over to Lee who edited the stories, and added dialogue. It wasn't just Kirby who was leaned on for plots by Lee, other writer/artists like Steve Ditko and Wally Wood told the exact same stories about Lee taking the full writers page rate and credit for stories they created.